Celestial Knight
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Celestial Knight 1257347268|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
warlock class aside
it has to mix with one of the following
8 level paladin
3 cleric
3 favored soul + 1 master of radiance
3 spirit shaman + 1 master of radiance
3 druid + 1 master of radiance
Edit: ranger 8+ Master of radiance (thx to mammothtruk)
are these the possibilities for a warlock to qualify?
Mammothtruk (guest) 1257352753|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Ranger 8/MoR/Warlock/ED
Celestial Knight 1257353626|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
I hope there is no cheese or easy way for blackguard to abuse with only 4 levels….that would be a bit unfair to paladins and rangers…because blackguards get second level spells at level 4…..
Telamon 1257354494|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Can Blackguards even qualify for a divine spellcasting requirement? Their spell progression is handled differently than other divine casters, yes?
Mammothtruk (guest) 1257355075|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
yeah looks like blackguard would fill the caster and turn requirements. However to qualify for Blackguard your going to have to have its requirements thus still requiring a base class:
Alignment: Any evil
Base attack bonus: +6
Skills: Hide 5 ranks
Feats: Cleave, Power attack
Looks like your going to have min 6 levels of the base class to get blackguard. Total of 11 levels baseclass/BG/Warlock before you could start the PrC. Not level effective unless your gearing for the Black Guard and the base class with high BAB anyway. That pretty much means Fighter as the other high bab classes can cast divine spells already.
Fighter 6/Black Guard 4/Warlock 1/ Eldritch Disciple 10 leavings you with 9 levels to spread on your classes as your now class capped. Suppose you could replace Fighter with Ranger or Paladin if you wanted… Not really a power build. Advancing Warlock invocations I would assume with base fighter as BG spells arent all that great in number. Tis a lot of effort for little payout is all Im saying.
nicethugbert 1257369713|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Oh noes! Blackguards will rule the world! Paladin's will cry in their holy water.
Sezneg (guest) 1257369753|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Honestly I would just eat the feat/skill requirements for blackguard while leveling up as a warlock. That's the best way to swing it as far as "ease of leveling" goes.
I guess in my way of thinking the primary concern for any sort of build that wants to rely on eldritch blasts is dice progression. If your character is going to use eldritch blasts as their primary source of damage, you need to get as many dice as you can (and eldritch master if at all possible), the new practiced warlock feat will really help with this .The great thing about heartwarder/eldritch disciple is that they let you splash in some extra flavor and utility while still progressing the dice pool.
This really is a problem for ED/paladin builds. For "RP" sake if you want to be a "redeemed" warlock obviously you have to start as a warlock. At what point in your career are you redeemed? 1 level? 4? Whenever you manage to get yourself to lawful good? Now you're leveling as a pally for 8 levels, and getting 4 levels worth of dice progression with practiced invoker. If you have any access to mid-high magic items at this stage you are going to get more damage from a weapon than your eldritch blasts (especially if you're stats are setup with EDM in mind). So now you have 8 pally levels, and qualify for eldritch discipline. You get another 10 levels of dice progression. If you started with 12 warlock levels this is moot, you're lvl 30. If not the only way to get more dice without a second alignment change would be heartwarder, so I hope you planned your feats accordingly.
That's not to say that this is a bad build, or that it won't work. Quite the contrary I think it will work. The heartwarder levels with all the nice charisma boosts would help you qualify for epic divine might for instance.
The alignment change still really bothers me though.
Celestial Knight 1257372203|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
base class….WARLOCK IS a BASE CLASS…..warlock 16/4 blackguard/10edritch disciple….worksfine….why dont you want the full progression of warlock is beyond me……why mix it with figther or another weak base class….
Telamon 1257372951|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
That appeals to me the most. I'd probably go Warlock for 8 levels, Blackguard for 4, Eldritch Disciple for 8 or 10 and Warlock to finish it off for epic campaigns. It'll be a variation of the Blacklock with Turn Undead and Divine Gifts instead of regular Warlock bonuses at the higher levels. Sounds like fun.
Kaedrin 1257375966|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Blackguard is not a valid divine caster choice due to the way it is implemented.
Celestial Knight 1257382694|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Thank you so much kaedrin i was afraid of the abuse of the blackguard…..! it would have been unfair to paladin and ranger if the blackguard could just qualify at level 4
Kaedrin 1257384848|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
It has nothing to do with that as it's purely an implementation issue. Blackguards are a prc and as such require base class levels to even start getting spells making the total cost higher. For very specific/niche builds it could be an advantage but pnp is full of such situations. There are whole forums for maximizing class splashing (character optimization).
Mammothtruk (guest) 1257456083|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
well that puts an end to all that :)
And having an base class thats not going to get relatively good spells in more than once a day quantity defeats the entire reason to go ED here. If your just going to work on Warlock invocations then you might as well stick to Warlock and not "splash" (I really that that term) a divine caster at all. BG would be completely useless compared to:
3 cleric
3 favored soul + 1 master of radiance
3 spirit shaman + 1 master of radiance
3 druid + 1 master of radiance
You get more "bang for your buck" (also hate that term used in PnP) doing the above four combos. Id much rather have two domains than the BG Aura and spells. and MoR lends itself to invocations alright in my eyes. BG if working for this wouldnt be worth doing in the end anyway.
Kunikos 1257464512|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
I think the closest to a base class that is evil warrior flavored opposite to the paladin will be the custom Dark Soul class, assuming Kaedrin implements it. But I don't think it's a spellcaster. Dread Necromancer also counts as arcane not divine, right?
Kaedrin 1257464648|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
BG aura is an unresistable -2 penalty to multiple enemies which beats anything you can get from two domains (even Luck and War). DN is arcane.
