Upcoming Patch 1.12

summary:

This details the hefty impact coming our way

Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kaedrin 1200020663|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

As you can see below, the bottom line is that Reeron and myself are going to have to move our feats and spells to avoid MoW (and likely future adventure packs) because they didn't look at what the community has been using as reserved 2da numbers for months or putting it inside the already padded area that Obsidian provides. RWS is going to take this change the hardest as they have to redo and rerelease all of their work (numbering wise). Anyone that has built with their stuff has to remap as well. The only upside is that Kivinen has upgraded his remap tool to assist module/pw developers.

It doesn't help single player folks so I'm going to be looking into figuring out how to get a character file out of a save game, repaired/remapped, and put back in the save game. That and rewrite my most complicated scripts to handle a new range of 2da entries (blackguard and assassin spellbooks are hammered by this). Generate a new include file with the remapped feat/spells constant values and rebuild every script file. Then try to test the hell out of it to make sure it's not broken by the remap. :( I'm really not looking forward to this work.

I'm looking at starting spells off in the 3000-3600 range and feats at the 3500-3800 and 4000-4500 ranges.

Here's the IRC Log. I'll be deleting this post and any threads after a few days or at least editing out my frustration.

<[OEI]McGnome> Ok, so we found out that Ossian used many of the 2da rows that start right after our entries
<[OEI]McGnome> With 1.12, we will be updating the various 2da's with additional reserved rows
<[OEI]McGnome> that will show you guys what they used so modders do not over-write what they have
<[OEI]McGnome> their rows will have the label of padding_Ossian, in case you need to make some script changes
<[OEI]McGnome> so.. here's the first batch of 2da files you will have to worry about:
<[OEI]McGnome> Appearance.2da: Rows 1044 - 1050
<[OEI]McGnome> Feat.2da: Rows 2861 - 2870
<[OEI]McGnome> Nwn2icons.2da: Rows 2500 - 2501
<[OEI]McGnome> Polymorph.2da: Row 161
<[OEI]McGnome> Soundset.2da: Rows 800 - 811
<[OEI]McGnome> Spells.2da: Rows 1697 - 1707
<[OEI]McGnome> Wingmodel.2da: Row 30
<[OEI]McGnome> Second set of files (we have not changed these yet, so the rows may still change):
<[OEI]McGnome> 1) placeables.2da rows reserved for MoW are 4001 - 4063
<[OEI]McGnome> 2) ambientmusic.2da rows reserved for MoW are 175 - 195
<[OEI]McGnome> 3) loadscreens.2DA rows reserved for MoW are 240 - 243
<[OEI]McGnome> 4) tilecolor.2DA rows reserved for MoW are 6 - 7
<[OEI]McGnome> 5) tiles.2DA rows reserved for MoW are 960 - 968 and 1004 - 1040
<[OEI]McGnome> 6) tilesets.2DA rows reserved for MoW are 19 - 20

last edited on 1200098325|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Kaedrin + show more

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kunikos 1200518310|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

What's RWS? Also, I'm kind of disappointed that they didn't give a head's up that this may happen after Ossian started planning their work. I mean, Ossian could have had the opportunity to work with the community but they obviously just don't care.

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kaedrin 1200532174|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

RWS: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=User.EntriesListing&id=3515

These guys turn out some incredible content.

I'm talking with Ossian about getting custom classes and feats to work with their module so I'm optimistic about Ossian. It was a bit short-sighted to not get their stuff in the reserved range to begin with (since NWN1 premium content got added to the reserved areas) but maybe this won't be an issue in the future.

last edited on 1200532259|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Kaedrin + show more

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kunikos 1200533087|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Maybe Obsidian has reserved stuff for NX2 going into those ranges?

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kaedrin 1200534115|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Rob mentioned that was the intent of the new ranges, to account for any future content regardless of source (expansion, adventure pack).

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kunikos 1200616480|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Is this something that is likely to repeat itself at future times? Say, everytime they patch in things for new expansions or adventure packs?

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kaedrin 1200767926|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I intend to move well enough outside the range that unless they deliver several times the content of NWN1/2 combined then I won't have anything to worry about. It's going to be one last "painful" move.

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Anonymous (67.135.207.x) 1202325944|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hey guys, Rob from Obsidian here…

A little clarification:

Ossian used hak packs for their custom content, so this will not be as much of an issue as we originally thought. Their content will only conflict with other custom content if you are playing their module.

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Carpot Muncher 1203068569|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

In light of Rob's most recent post about Ossian content using haks (adjacent to this post),
will this mean that you will not have to move any of your 2DA rows, and that your projects are now actively being worked on again?

I'd tried to get a bit more detail in a PM to Rob, but its a bit open ended (about whether other future content might interfere with the stuff we devs make, or in other words, what is an ideal way for us to plan our 2DA
row usage in advance. I'd been using the > 2X (OC + X1) rule of thumb, though when I'd read about the
jump up to rows 4001 - 4063 in placeables.2DA, it got me concerned.

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kaedrin 1203091464|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Premium content in NWN1 was eventually folded into the game inside the existing Bioware reserved range. For NWN2 Obsidian is moving the reserve range out to encompass the numbers that Ossian already used.

While there is a spacer of 500+ spells and feats between Obsidian's stuff and mine, if they decide to add Ossians content to the official content list at the spot it's in now i'll have a collision. If they move the content then Ossian will have to update their module to handle the new numbers which is something I really don't expect to happen.

Ossian using Haks means I have time to plan for a remap until they are officially integrated into the engine but it doesn't solve the (possible) future issue. The longer I wait to move stuff the more users (single player to PW) that will have to actually edit their characters to avoid having to restart. Players (and especially PW's) would have to do a LOT of work to edit their characters to a new range. I'm damned if I do and more damned the longer I wait. I don't really know of a solution to the problem.

Given that I haven't heard back from Ossian on if they plan to use the CCS_ scripts to allow community content (mine, Lady D's, Joshua's, etc) to work in their module coupled with the fact that they have stated they made no code changes since they gave it to Atari months ago I'm beginning to think it's not going to happen. This reduces the incentive to move now but I'll be left with a "in the future" issue that will simply grow over time.

The upside is that Ron Huffman has altered his character editor to take an INI file and remap feats/spells/domains/races/subraces with it. So it *IS* a fixable issue. It's just a tedious one. He might be able to add a command line switch to it to allow a PW to run it on a server vault. I (and the other CC creators) will need to generate those INI files.

I'd love to hear opinions on what I should do.

I have not stopped working on my content but I did stop working on the Nature update for a bit. What I've been working on in the meantime is getting my content to work with Companions (as they don't fire the same events as a player) for module developers and those that multiclass their companions to my classes. I've wrapped this work up so I'm back to work on new CC again. This weekend I plan to knock out the Stormsinger, Lion of Talisid, Elemental Archer, and Dragon Samuari. After that I'll be back to the full up nature update. Somewhere in the middle of this I'll be updating the spells with the Ranger/Paladin caster levels (once 1.12 is out) and moving either the Blackguard or Assassin to the new spellbook system so that LadyD can use it as an actual example for her spellcasting PrCs.

last edited on 1203091765|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Kaedrin + show more

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Carpot Muncher 1203525230|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Yeah I understand the dilema, whish they could give us some definitive answers as far as row reservtions. In the event that you do decide to do some major migration project(s), perhaps Kivenen might already have one of his PERL tools applicable for the job. http://www.kivinen.iki.fi/nwn/

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kaedrin 1205449461|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

The patch ETA is Monday (the 17th) and from the looks of it I'll need to move around 10 spells that are tied to feat's so this shouldn't cause any issues for me. It's another matter for Reeron's stuff as the feats in the reserve range conflict with his RDD upgrade.

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Anonymous (69.229.212.x) 1205478738|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Here's hoping that he will summon the courage to re-do the complete colored Dragon Disciple when he has to go do a lot of RDD 2da fixes. ;)

Re: Upcoming Patch 1.12

Kaedrin 1205612511|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I checked with him about it and he said he would add it back to his to-do list.